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Dominic Cummings has claimed he plotted to oust Boris Johnson just weeks after his massive 2019 general election win.

In an interview with the BBC tonight he said by the middle of January 2020 – even before Covid struck – the Prime Minister ‘did not have a plan’ for governing.

And he admitted he and the rest of his Vote Leave allies began to clash with the then Carrie Symonds over who controlled the premier.

In Dominic Cummings: The Interview, which aired at 7pm, he accused the PM’s wife of also believing he had no plan for government and deciding it should be ‘me that’s pulling the strings’.

He claimed she tried to get rid of him ‘within days’ of the vote which handed Boris an 80-seat majority and replace him and his team with ‘complete clowns’.

In a wide-ranging interview with Laura Kuenssberg, Mr Cummings savaged his former boss and revealed some of the secret conversations they had.

He said the Prime Minister thought it was ‘ludicrous’ he was Prime Minister after he took over in Downing Street and said he calls the Daily Telegraph his ‘real boss’.

The former chief adviser said the PM also made the comment about his old university friend and fellow leader David Cameron’s time in office.

He claimed Mr Johnson has an ‘odd self awareness mode’ and he knows he should not be in his position in his latest bombshells about his old boss. 

In an interview with the BBC, due to be broadcast tonight he said that by the middle of January 2020 - even before Covid struck, the Prime Minister 'did not have a plan for governing'.

In an interview with the BBC, due to be broadcast tonight he said that by the middle of January 2020 - even before Covid struck, the Prime Minister 'did not have a plan for governing'.

In an interview with the BBC, due to be broadcast tonight he said that by the middle of January 2020 – even before Covid struck, the Prime Minister ‘did not have a plan for governing’.

And he admitted that he and the rest of his Vote Leave allies began to clash with the then Carrie Symonds over who controlled the premier.

And he admitted that he and the rest of his Vote Leave allies began to clash with the then Carrie Symonds over who controlled the premier.

And he admitted that he and the rest of his Vote Leave allies began to clash with the then Carrie Symonds over who controlled the premier.

Cummings:  Anyone 100% sure Brexit will be a success has a screw loose 

Dominic Cummings used the interview to warn against Brexit  tribalism, saying only history could tell if it would be a success.

The architect of the successful Vote leave campaign – which included Mr Johnson and Michael Gove – said one of the reasons for its success was that it did not regard its opponents as ‘idiots or traitors’. 

He said: ‘We never thought like that then and still don’t and … I think it’s perfectly reasonable to say Brexit was a mistake and the little, the history will, will, will prove that, of course it’s reasonable for some people to, to think that.

‘I can be confident on judgements like, is so and so up for the job or is so and so er, extremely able or extremely rubbish. Those sort of things I think I’ve shown good judgement on over the last few years. But questions like is Brexit a good idea? No-one on earth knows if that’s, what the answer to that is.

‘I think that obviously I think Brexit was a good thing… I think that the way in which the world has worked out since 2016 vindicates the arguments that Vote Leave made in all sorts of ways. I think it’s good that, that Brexit happened.’

 And he admitted that the notorious red bus with a promise of £350million for the NHS after leaving was a ‘deliberate trap’ for the Remain campaign.

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Mr Cummings said: ‘He’s a very complicated character. He’s unusual in a lot of politicians in having a sort of odd, self awareness mode.

‘He kind of knows in all sorts of ways that it’s ludicrous for him to be in that position.

‘He said that to me a few times before the referendum, he said that on the 24 June, the day after the referendum in 2016.’

He added the PM said: ‘It’s ludicrous that Dave [Cameron] was prime minister, it’s ludicrous that George [Osborne] wants to be prime minister. The whole thing’s ludicrous.’

In one of the more shocking allegations tonight, he claimed the PM still refers to the Daily Telegraph as his ‘real boss’ and said it was ‘hard to tell’ if he was joking.

BBC journalist Laura Kuenssberg asked Mr Cummings how he thought he was seen by others.

He replied: ‘Generally as a nightmare.’

Mr Cummings was also asked about whether all his recent attacks on the government have been revenge for being booted out of No 10.

He said: ‘The reason I’m speaking out is I want people to be thinking about these questions: How are we governed? How is power actually exercised in No 10? What sort of things should be more transparent? How should these power structures be opened up?’

Ms Kuenssberg asked: ‘Does it have to be so personal?’

‘It doesn’t matter if it’s personal. It doesn’t matter if people are upset. All these MPs or ministers or officials or whoever … We need more difficult conversations in this country. More people upset.

‘A lot of people have a pop at me but you don’t see me crying about it.’

He also weighed in on the Prime Minister’s wife.

He said: ‘Before even mid-January we were having meetings in Number 10 saying it’s clear that Carrie (Johnson) wants rid of all of us.

‘At that point we were already saying by the summer either we’ll all have gone from here or we’ll be in the process of trying to get rid of him and get someone else in as Prime Minister.’

In other parts of the interview the journalist pushed him on the government’s coronavirus response.

He claimed the Prime Minister thought Covid would be a passing ‘fad’ like Swine Flu was and added it was ‘like a disaster movie’.

He said: ‘It was like a disaster movie but it was real. even in the first week of march [BJ] said ‘business as usual’, he didn’t take it seriously. his view was that it was like swine flu and that he had seen these sort of scares before.’

Mr Cummings said the government’s plan of herd immunity was questioned by a ‘very, very smart physicist’.

He said they spoke to him ahead of lockdown and said: ‘Look it doesn’t seem this has been thought out, has any of this been properly checked?’

And he said they asked him if they could look into another solution.

Tories rounded on the claims he made, with Telford MP Lucy Allan branding him ‘completely delusional’.

He added: ‘(Mr Johnson) doesn’t have a plan, he doesn’t know how to be Prime Minister and we only got him in there because we had to solve a certain problem not because he was the right person to be running the country.’

The revelation is the latest broadside from Mr Cummings, who has repeatedly bitten the hand that once fed him since he was axed last year. 

In the interview he will also accuse Mr Johnson pf trying to avoid a second lockdown last year by joking that it would only kill the over 80s who were expendable.

Mr Cummings also alleged he had to talk the PM out of visiting the Queen early in the pandemic by pointing out he could kill her if he was infected.

Cummings claimed he told Boris Johnson that 'of course he couldn't go and see the Queen' at the start of the pandemic (file photo)

Cummings claimed he told Boris Johnson that 'of course he couldn't go and see the Queen' at the start of the pandemic (file photo)

Cummings claimed he told Boris Johnson that ‘of course he couldn’t go and see the Queen’ at the start of the pandemic (file photo)

The former advisor, who was sacked at the end of last year, shared WhatsApp messages with the BBC as he alleged the Prime Minister was reluctant to heighten restrictions because ‘the people who are dying are essentially all over 80’ and therefore expendable.

In his first broadcast interview, with Ms Kuenssberg, the hostile former chief adviser to Mr Johnson accused his one-time boss of putting ‘his own political interests ahead of people’s lives’.

But it is the resumption of his war with Mrs Johnson that will raise most eyebrows. He quit No10 in December after losing a power battle with the PM’s third wife. 

Last month he used a Substack newsletter to describe them as like a ‘demonic Russian virus’ when together last year and described their relationship as ‘weird’ when he joined No10.

In his first TV interview since leaving No 10, Mr Cummings claimed the PM ‘put his own political interests ahead of people’s lives for sure’.

He said Mr Johnson’s attitude last autumn was a ‘weird mix’ of ‘partly ‘it’s all nonsense and lockdowns don’t work anyway’ and partly ‘well this is terrible but the people who are dying are essentially all over 80 and we can’t kill the economy just because of people dying over 80′.’

He added: ‘Lots of people heard the Prime Minister say that, the Prime Minister texted that to me and other people.’

However Tory MPs rallied behind Mr Johnson. Peter Bone has dismissed Mr Cummings’s allegations, saying the former aide was driven by revenge and had failed to prove a series of explosive claims he made about the inner workings of No 10 before parliamentary committees in recent months.

‘He didn’t provide the evidence when he was before the select committees, which he promised to do. He failed miserably to do that,’ Mr Bone told the BBC.

‘If you want my opinion, you can discount virtually everything Dominic Cumming says about anything.

‘He is a man who is driven by revenge and serious journalists cannot possibly believe what he says.’

In a fresh assault on his ex-boss, Dominic Cummings said he had to persuade the PM (pictured right) not to have his weekly audience with the monarch in case he gave her the fatal virus

In a fresh assault on his ex-boss, Dominic Cummings said he had to persuade the PM (pictured right) not to have his weekly audience with the monarch in case he gave her the fatal virus

In a fresh assault on his ex-boss, Dominic Cummings said he had to persuade the PM (pictured right) not to have his weekly audience with the monarch in case he gave her the fatal virus

WHAT THE PM POSTED TO HIS STAFF

‘I must say I have been slightly rocked by some of the data on Covid fatalities. The median age is 82 – 81 for men, 85 for women. That is above life expectancy. So get Covid and live longer. Hardly anyone under 60 goes into hospital (4 per cent) and of those virtually all survive. And I no longer buy all this NHS overwhelmed stuff. Folks I think we may need to recalibrate. There are max 3m in this country aged over 80. It shows we don’t go for nationwide lockdown.’

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Mr Cummings  also revealed Mr Johnson wanted to meet the Queen at the start of the pandemic despite signs Covid was spreading in Downing Street, it was claimed last night.

In a fresh assault on his ex-boss, he said he had to persuade the PM not to have his weekly audience with the monarch in case he gave her the fatal virus.

He told the BBC: ‘I said ”what are you doing?” and he said ”I’m going to see the Queen”, and I said, ”what on earth are you talking about, of course you can’t go and see the Queen”.

‘[The PM] said, ”ah, that’s what I do every Wednesday, sod this, I’m gonna go and see her”.’

The former chief adviser alleged he warned the PM that there were already people in No 10 who were isolating and told him: ‘You might have coronavirus.’

He added: ‘I just said, ”if you… give her coronavirus and she dies what are you gonna do, you can’t do that, you can’t risk that, that’s completely insane”.

‘And he said, he basically just hadn’t thought it through, he said, ”yeah, holy s***, I can’t go”.’ 

Mr Cummings also claimed that Mr Johnson repeatedly said ‘we should never have done the first lockdown’. 

Source: Daily Mail UK

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